Here is one dumb argument the Atheists ignorantly make. They say that the God of the Old testament is cruel and brutal. In fact here is a site that list more than a 2000 verses that they claim show that God is cruel.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
Trying to take each of those verses and debunking them would be a foolish idea, simply because those verses do not say what the atheists want them to say. The cruelty attributed to God is that He kills or instructs to kill. Let me show you why this argument is nonsense.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
Trying to take each of those verses and debunking them would be a foolish idea, simply because those verses do not say what the atheists want them to say. The cruelty attributed to God is that He kills or instructs to kill. Let me show you why this argument is nonsense.
- God's position: God is our creator. Destroying His creation can not be considered cruelty. If a painter destroys his painting, would that be considered cruelty? Would you term him as violent? What about if a potter destroys some of his pots? But some would say that my analogy is incorrect, because in them the created objects are lifeless. But life itself is a creation of God. Therefore that argument does not stand.
- Faulty Logic: Atheists or Skeptics foolishly claim that the God of the Bible is cruel and violent and therefore cannot be a God. In reality they playing with logic. The Bible makes some claims about who God is. If such a God's existence is assumed then His actions cannot be termed cruel. But they work in the reverse. They first of all evaluate the works of God with human standards and find it cruel. Then because God committed such cruelties they conclude that GOD is cruel and cannot exit.
As the creator of my children, would I have the right to threaten, torture and kill them? Do you say that that is not cruel? If so my friend you are as bad as the evil god you follow.
ReplyDeleteFist of all sorry for the delay in reply. Please be assure that I will not ignore any of the comments I get in this website.
DeleteThe relation ship between us and God is not actually that of children and father. Would you call me cruel if I were a potter and I break some of my pots?
Oh dear! What bible have you read Ann? The one I have studied makes it quite clear that god is the father and we are all his children. I must say you have a unique interpretation of the bible! If the pots you made were intelligent and sentient beings, then yes you would be cruel. If you had the power or ability to make them perfect yet still made them imperfect so as to break them, yes you would be especially cruel, and a maybe even a little insane. Why did god make us imperfect when he could have made us perfect? I would be interested to hear your take on this.
DeleteI need to go to work now, but I will respond to all of your replies in due course, I look forward to interacting with you more.
May the sauce be with you
The Reverend.
ps, if you find it more comfortable you can call me David (a fine biblical name eh!)
You need to read the Bible again. God indeed loves us as His children. But He is our creator. So what is He to us? The1 Creator.
DeleteThis is what you guys do. First you have improper understanding of the scripture. Then you come to conclusions from that erroneous understanding. Then you question God!!!
God did not make us imperfect. However He did create us with a free will. That needed to be, because GOD wanted man to beings that had the ability to make choices. If you view that as an imperfection then you need to have a better understanding of things.
"Would you call me cruel if I were a potter and I break some of my pots?"
ReplyDeleteSo humans are unfeeling "pots" now? Considering you claim atheists apply use "Faulty Logic", I would have thought you would make a better comparison.
Anyway, to answer the question, a potter who breaks his pots cannot be considered cruel; careless, almost certainly.
I did not say we are pots. That was just an example to show you the relationship between a creator and his creation.
DeleteMan thinks that he is someone great. However the fact is that man is just a creation of God. Being our creator, God can do whatever He pleases with us.
Here is another question. Would man be considered cruel if he kills some germs? Man kills certain types of bacteria in large numbers while preserving some other kind of bacteria that is beneficial for him. Is that cruel?
Here is the problem with your comparisons, you are maintaining the alleged superiority of creator role, i.e. Potter over Pots, Man over Germs, but greatly reducing the worth of the alleged creation. Pots have no feeling or awareness of self, germs, while a form of life, are not a creation of man nor do they possess the required complexity to be presented as equals of humans.
DeleteI'm sure I don't have to remind you that in Genesis, god gave man dominion over the earth. The same cannot be said of pots or germs. This means humans are undeniably special, as we appear to be both the pride and point of creation. The only comparison which best embodies this relationship between Creator and his beloved Creation is that of a Parent & Child. (What parent wouldn't give their child the world? )
So I'll represent your question in proper context, would man be considered cruel if he kills his children? They are after all, creations of man, so man can do as he pleases with them.
You just don't understand comparisons. I really wonder if you are really so dumb or are pretending to be so.
DeleteA potter and his pot or an artist and his art is an ideal example of a creator and his creation. The creator is superior level and his creation is much lower thing. This I sighted to explain position of man and God.
Man and germs I sighted not as an example for comparison but as a question to you. You are confused. You did not answer my question if you can. Would you call man cruel if he kills germs? (Though man is not the creator of germs)
Now listen to this and try to get it this time. A man and his child is not a proper comparison because man is human being and his child is also a human being. They are beings of the same level. So your question is invalid. Answer my question.
"You just don't understand comparisons"
DeleteUnfortunately for you I most certainly do understand, I also understand how questions can be framed to achieve a desired result. For example, your 'comparison' will only work if you can successfully lessen the worth of humanity to fit your callous argument. First you establish that humans ‘think’ we are special thus establishing a lack of significance. Then you create an invalid scenario built on the idea that humans are not special. As I have already stated, in genesis god gave humans dominion over the earth; humans are therefore significant & special, they are the point of creation, i.e. the reason the earth was created. Unless you can claim the same of "pots", "art", or "bacteria" then any argument that does not ascribe significance to god’s alleged creation is using false equivalence. This brings us back full circle to the fact you keep avoiding, which is, the only comparison which best embodies this unique relationship and acknowledges the significance of the creation is that of a Parent & Child.
"I really wonder if you are really so dumb or are pretending to be so."
I really have to wonder who is a better christian, the Atheist who has not insulted you, or the Christian who can’t answer questions without insulting. How do you intend to save anyone if this is how you treat people?
"This I sighted to explain position of man and God."
Genesis already establishes this, "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them". The same cannot be said of "pots", "art", or "bacteria". I wonder what comparison would work here?
"You did not answer my question if you can."
I did. Scroll up, where I say "cruel, no, careless, yes".
"A man and his child is not a proper comparison because man is human being and his child is also a human being."
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Pot. Oh wait. His only begotten Art? Bacteria? Wait. It was his son, in human form. How odd that being human was good enough for jesus but not good enough for comparisons. Go figure.
You still don't understand.
DeleteOkay answer these question.
1. Man is a human being and his child is also a human being. Are they in the same level?
2. Is man and germ in the same level?
3. Is a potter and his pot in the same level?
Oh Annie, why can you not answer a question with a straight answer. You are just reiterating what is said in the bible; it would appear that you don't understand what the bible means, only what it says and just repeat what your lying priests have told you. The very fact that we have free will and the god given gift of the right to make choices means that we will make wrong choices from time to time, therefore we are not perfect, ipso facto we are imperfect. While on the subject of choices, if god gave me the ability to make choices and I, according to your view anyway, made the wrong one and grew to be a rational thinking person, or atheist if you prefer, why does he a)not take the role of any halfway decent parent and show me the error of my ways? b)Why did he bestow that right upon me, presumably knowing that I am fallible, just to condemn me to eternal damnation? Some loving father that, don't you think? No scrap that, you don't think, not for yourself anyway.
ReplyDeleteAny intelligent and rational reading of the bible will very quickly reveal the mindset of the writers, revealing them as superstitious bronze age goatherds and fishermen, the attitude to women and children reflects the male dominated society of the time, the miracles talk to the lack of knowledge of the world around them. The new testament is but a rewrite of previous beliefs, altered to fulfill the prophecies of the old testament. You said in a previous post that the writers of the bible were scholars but they were not, they were ordinary folk that wrote down the legends of their ancestors just as you are doing. The scholars were the ones that came later and transcribed and altered and mistranslated the bible into the incoherent mess it is today, mostly to subjugate the people and empower themselves; and your lying priests are their spawn. They perpetuate the lies to subjugate the people and retain power. And don't tell me the church doesn't want power because if it didn't it would not be necessary for us to be fighting for a secular world.
The Reverend
*******The very fact that we have free will and the god given gift of the right to make choices means that we will make wrong choices from time to time, therefore we are not perfect, ipso facto we are imperfect. ********
DeleteNo, it does not mean that. You are the one who is not able to understand. Answer me this. If someone makes the worlds perfect paper would it be tear-able? Okay. Because it can be torn, would that make the paper imperfect? If it is a paper, we should be able to tear it or cut it. Otherwise it is not a paper. Similarly, if we are man we need to have that quality or we not men.
*****...why does he a)not take the role of any halfway decent parent and show me the error of my ways?******
He does. Through people like me He is showing you your errors. But you just don't want to listen.
****b)Why did he bestow that right upon me, presumably knowing that I am fallible, just to condemn me to eternal damnation?*****
Because it is you who have to correct your errors.
*********Any intelligent and rational reading of the bible will very quickly reveal the mindset of the writers, revealing them as superstitious bronze age goatherds and fishermen,********
No it would not. Only a thoroughly deluded reading, filled with erroneous per-suppositions can get that meaning out of it.
*******the attitude to women and children reflects the male dominated society of the time,*******
Males and females had their position in the society and that was God ordained.
*******the miracles talk to the lack of knowledge of the world around them.********
That is what you assume.
******The new testament is but a rewrite of previous beliefs, altered to fulfill the prophecies of the old testament.*******
The problem with people like you, who call themselves rational thinkers, is that you don't know what rational thinking is. Being able to cook up any nonsense to explain something is not rational thinking. You need to do some research before condemning the Bible.
*****You said in a previous post that the writers of the bible were scholars but they were not, they were ordinary folk that wrote down the legends of their ancestors just as you are doing.*******
Again you are ignorant of facts.
*****The scholars were the ones that came later and transcribed and altered and mistranslated the bible into the incoherent mess it is today, mostly to subjugate the people and empower themselves;*******
There were supposed scholars who corrupted the Bibles. That was their second ploy. The first was to destroy the Bible completely. When God did into allow this and when they realized that they could not destroy it they came up with this second ploy. But God has protected His words and it is still available for us to know the truth.
********and your lying priests***********
Here is your ignorance again. I do not follow any priests.
*******They perpetuate the lies to subjugate the people and retain power. And don't tell me the church doesn't want power because if it didn't it would not be necessary for us to be fighting for a secular world.********
You are talking about the Catholicism. The problem is you don't understand what Catholicism is. You are unable to distinguish the difference between Catholicism and Christianity. Christianity is not looking for any worldly power but Catholicism is.
“God's position:” – who are you to say such words (looks more like your position to me). “God is our creator. Destroying His creation can not be considered cruelty.” – It realy depends on point of view. We can think wolves are ok, it’s their nature, but sheeps can have another view. So it’s maybe ok for God to kill and punish lots of people without real need (and with arguable methods), but for me this looks real cruel. Remember we have free will and our own views (although if your views are wrong its iternal damnation for you).
ReplyDeleteMan cannot know about God and His nature by himself. Whatever research man does he will not be able to know God. That is why God reveals details about Himself man. That is the only way man can know about God.
DeleteNow I would say God has revealed many things about Himself to me. I know somethings about God's nature. Now you would get on my case. You would say that I am portraying a "holier than thou" attitude. Or you would ask why should God reveal all this to and not to us.
My answer would be this. I am not someone with special privileges. I am not a person who is better than you. You might be a better person that me. But I did something that you still have not done. I accepted a fact that there is God. Then I looked for Him.
Almost forgot about Gods plan (according to Bible) to scorch the Earth in the end. Doesn’t looks nice to me, but God is God, right? Btw I’am Fallout fan, so its time to build underground vaults.
ReplyDelete"Does not look right to me". How does it matter if it looks right to you or not?
DeleteAs I said in another post this is what the devil taught to Eve. "You will be like God." So in your sight you are God. A thing is right if it seems right to you. Otherwise it is not right.
Think about it. Every atheist behaves like he is a god.